Magic Markets #228: Mesh.Trade and the Titans

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The Finance Ghost: Welcome to episode 228 of Magic Markets. I have a strong suspicion that this is going to be as fun as it is insightful, because we have the team not just from Mesh on the call and on the podcast, but also from AnBro. So there are some familiar voices for you.

Unfortunately, when Craig joined, it was not a familiar voice because his audio sounded like he was being attacked by an angry squirrel. And many, many minutes after we intended to start, we now have him on the call with working audio. Never a dull moment here at the cutting edge of podcasting Moe – and let me say hello to you before we welcome our esteemed guests, including Craig, who has hopefully put his pet squirrel away forever.

 

Mohammed Nalla: Indeed, Ghost. Really excited to have the team from both Mesh and AnBro on the show with us today. Your reference to an angry squirrel – I live in Canada, there are lots of angry squirrels that live in the forest that’s just behind my house. So hopefully none of those come jumping through the window while we’re doing this podcast.

Enough shooting the breeze. I want to really get stuck into today’s topic because what we’re discussing today, we’ve got Mesh on the one hand, we’ve got AnBro on the other hand. And maybe some of you are wondering, why do we have Mesh and AnBro on the same show? And that’s because we are really excited about discussing the launch of the latest AnBro portfolio. It’s called Titans. It’s a really exciting initiative launched by AnBro, but it’s also available on the Mesh.Trade platform. And so that’s the reason why we wanted to bring both of you onto the show today, Connie Bloem from Mesh, Craig Antonie. Because it’s not just about discussing the portfolio, but quite often a lot of our listeners have come back to us with feedback saying, how can we actually operationalise some of these fantastic ideas that we speak about here on Magic Market? So that’s some of the backdrop.

With that, Connie, Craig, welcome to Magic Markets.

 

Connie Bloem: Hi Moe. Hi Ghost. I promise you that I have no pet squirrels anywhere, but I’m pretty sure that analogy is going to come up in the Titans somewhere again.

 

Craig Antonie: Can you hear me? Over.

 

The Finance Ghost: Yes, we can hear you, Craig. That’s so exciting. I’ve never been happier to hear your voice. This is wonderful news.

 

Craig Antonie: Awesome to be here as always, guys. Thanks for having me and I’m looking forward to the chat.

 

The Finance Ghost: Yeah, absolutely. I’ll tell you what, we’re gonna start with you while your audio is still working because I’ve lost absolutely all faith in it. And I think the point of the Titans portfolio is to try and find companies where they are somewhat more resilient than your laptop and actually just last through the cycle and get the job done.

And it’s a bit of a best-of-breed, best-in-class kind of model if I have a look at it. As the name would suggest, Titans are pretty impressive things. I think we should start with just understanding at a high level, what is this portfolio and why have you guys added this to your very interesting suite of portfolios, many of which we’ve talked about before on Magic Markets? Anyone listening to this, if you want to learn more about AnBro, go back and have a look at some of those podcasts. We’ll include some in the show notes, some of your other portfolios. So yeah, tell us about Titans and how it all fits in.

(you can learn about BRNDZ, ANCOMP and Unicorn – in the latter example, going all the way back to episode 11!)

 

Craig Antonie: Sure. Well, Titans really is the core portfolio that AnBro’s has had in their stable pretty much since we existed, 10-, 11-odd years or so and literally is the best of the best in terms of companies we can find for our portfolio as per the AnBro proprietary modelling that we use.

And essentially, each part of the various other spin-off portfolios that have been listed in SA and offshore since we’ve been chatting with you guys and since AnBro has been born, have really all been born from this portfolio. What we’ve done now is we’ve almost taken a step back and we’ve said let’s go back to the core that AnBro was built on and let’s bring this portfolio to the market where investors can get exposure to what we consider to be honestly the best companies we can find.

And what we’ve seen with this portfolio over the years is that not only is it incredibly diversified, that diversification has played really, really well in its favour. What we’ve been able to deliver is returns that are better than the market overall and with much lower volatility and much lower risk metrics. So we thought, you know what, this is an opportune time now with what’s going on in the world. Let’s use this now as the chance to bring this to the market and to the world.

 

Mohammed Nalla: Craig, I want to just maybe even step back a little further in terms of what exactly is in Titans, because you mentioned a well-diversified portfolio, you mentioned the best of the best. And some listeners might be out there saying, why don’t I just buy an S&P tracker? At the end of the day, those are the best of the best, it’s the world’s largest firms.

Talk to us a bit about the methodology behind Titans. How does that differ from just a pure S&P tracker? What’s the universe that you’re looking at, first and foremost? What’s some of the methodology that you apply? And then most importantly, what are some of the key differences that come out once you’ve actually applied that methodology versus someone that’s really just passive in the market – they buy an S&P tracker, they leave it in the portfolio as some of the core? Because some of the things I want to get into later on, and I don’t want to detract from this question is how can this be used as part of a core portfolio when building out your overall asset allocation?

So let’s maybe start off with what exactly is in Titans? What are you doing under the hood?

 

Craig Antonie: Sure. So, quite simply Moe what we do is we have our proprietary model and we put a few inputs into this model to start the process off. And really what we’re looking for here, first and foremost, is a diversified portfolio. What we then do is we look at the various GICS sectors that make up the market. If you don’t know what GICS is, it’s the Global Industry Classification Standards. It’s really what the 11 sectors are that make up the S&P 500.

What we say then is let’s look at each sector individually – these are the 11 sectors which ultimately drive the US economic machine – and the next layer then is to say, well, once we’ve identified the sectors which are obviously quite easy to do, what we want to look for is the best stocks really or the best companies we can find in each sector. And we obviously layer on important things like profitability, financial stability, growth rates, market cap, market share, market leadership, all these kind of things. We screen through the sectors and then add further layers on like volatility and beta and how do these markets, or rather these stocks behave in different markets and different economic scenarios. And then we look to construct the portfolio.

Now, when you talk about comparing it to something like the S&P 500 or a tracker ETF, this is where it really starts getting interesting. If you look at the S&P 500 and most people tend to look at the Mag 7, for example, as the cream of the crop when it comes to investing in companies in the States. The Mag 7 stocks make up roughly 32% of the S&P 500, right? If you look then at how these companies have performed over the years, they’ve done incredibly well. And so investors that have been passively investing along the way have done really, really nicely.

What they haven’t necessarily realised is that they’ve had very, very concentrated returns. These seven stocks that have done really well are automatically a third or just over a third of the universe that you can invest in in terms of market cap in the US, but you missed a few gems along the way if you’ve just focused on those, right? So if I look say at two market scenarios, say 2022, which is the most recent sell-off that we’ve had in markets when Russia invaded Ukraine, when interest rates rocketed and we saw markets fall in a heap, in that year the S&P 500 fell by around about 18% or so. This portfolio fell by 7%.

And the question is why, right? Because the Mag 7 as a group in 2022 fell by 46%, believe it or not. However, this portfolio was protected by an equal weighting to all stocks. And some of the stocks that did incredibly well in 2022 were energy stocks. The group of stocks that we had in this portfolio in the energy space were up over 60% in 2022. If you were an investor focused on the S&P 500, 30-odd percent of your portfolio fell by 46%.

One point I didn’t mention, which is very important is once we’ve selected the stocks in this portfolio, we equally weight them. There’s no overexposure to any one stock, any one theme, any one sector, which is why during extreme drawdowns like you saw in 2022 and even in COVID, there are always some stocks which are seen as more defensive and beneficiaries of any situational scenario you find yourself in.

2022 was an example – Mag 7 got absolutely annihilated. Our portfolio held up considerably better than the market because of the exposure to things like energy and utilities and consumer staples, which did relatively better.

If I step into say 2024, last year, which was our most recent year where the markets did incredibly well and we had a really, really good year. If you look at returns for 2024, the market was up around about 25% last year in the States and this portfolio did 31%. So again, the markets had an incredible year last year and the Mag 7 in particular did really, really well, right? Mag 7 last year was up about 60% if you look at them as a grouping, driven primarily by performance of a company like NVIDIA, which was up 170%. NVIDIA’s weight in the S&P 500 at the moment is about 7%, so you had 7% of your portfolio do incredibly well last year. But you know what you didn’t necessarily have in the S&P 500 in equal proportion, was a company by the name of Vistra Corporation or Vistra Energy. Vistra Energy absolutely smashed NVIDIA last year, it was up 260%. We had that in our portfolio and we had it at the same weight as NVIDIA was.

So now the interesting point about this was if you had NVIDIA, you would have done incredibly well, no doubt about it. NVIDIA is a high-growth, highly volatile semiconductor company. Vistra Energy is a utility. So you put the two together – we had NVIDIA high-growth high-tech stock, and we had a utility company which did even better. So not only did you have a combined performance which was better than NVIDIA individually, but you also had much lower risk, right? Because you had a utility stock alongside a tech stock.

And that’s the premise of how this portfolio is built, is identifying the best of breed in every sector in the market. And invariably what happens is you’re finding companies which are doing just as well as the Mag 7 but are disproportionately represented in the S&P 500 due to having a much smaller weight.

So we diversified it nicely. At any one time I’d say it would be between 55 and 60 stocks in the portfolio. It’s really well spread, well diversified and as I said, equally weighted. The benefit of that is that there’s always something pulling and something pushing, and depending on what cycle you’re in the market or what stage you are in in terms of the economy, there’s always one part of the economy that is benefiting at the expense of another. And what this enables you to do to get an equal exposure to each one.

The important thing that’s worth mentioning is that we re-weight this portfolio then at the end of every year. So hypothetically speaking, it worked incredibly well again, in 2022 markets melted down, Mag 7 as I said was down 46%, energy that we owned in our portfolio – our piece of the energy portfolio – was up 60-odd percent. What we did at the end of 2022 is we re-weighted, so we literally took profits in all our energy stocks. We bought all these stocks that had been essentially smashed downwards because of our reweighting methodology. And it allowed us effectively to take profits on stocks that had done really well and “buy the dip” in really good, high-quality companies that had been absolutely annihilated. And when markets then recovered in 2023, we were able to reap the rewards and the benefit of the recovery in those stocks that had underperformed so precipitously the year before. Essentially what it does is it allows us to just roll forward the best ideas into a continuous plethora, if you like, of opportunities as and when they present themselves, as a result of different economic circumstances we find ourselves in.

 

The Finance Ghost: So just to be clear, and I’ll give the Mic back to Moe now. So those 11 names that you can see on the website, those are examples of the ones in each sector. But it’s not that there’s only 11 stocks in the portfolio, there’s 55.

 

Craig Antonie: Exactly right.

 

The Finance Ghost: So you do hold Microsoft, so we can still be friends.

 

Craig Antonie: Yes!

 

The Finance Ghost: And now I will pass the mic to Moe.

 

Connie Bloem: Unless he makes squirrel sounds, just to be clear.

 

The Finance Ghost: Yes, but at least I can make sure he has Microsoft.

 

Mohammed Nalla: Craig, I want to jump in here because there’s actually quite a bit of, let’s call it model portfolio architecture behind this. AnBro’s been running this, as you say, for the last 10 years. Your back testing is not just a theoretical back testing, it’s an actual portfolio that’s been run at AnBro. I think that’s an important point.

I want to bring Connie into the discussion here because what I like about this Titans portfolio thus far, Craig, and again we can unpack a lot more detail, is that when I speak to a lot of institutional clients, for example, the skewing of the sectoral allocation that you’re getting in the S&P as you’ve mentioned, the Mag 7 make up such a disproportionately large portion of the index. It doesn’t make it a nice core building block, especially for people that effectively invest in a core and then they do these satellite tilts around that based on sectors that they think are going to outperform, underperform. And your Titans portfolio gives you that core, but then secondly, with the annual rebalancing, also helps you take advantage of some of that sectoral rotation that happens. That’s just a comment effectively, in terms of my observation on Titans.

Where I want to bring Connie into this discussion is, Connie, this partnership with AnBro, it’s fairly new versus the 10-year track record that they’ve got on this Titans portfolio. What’s the appeal for Mesh in terms of bringing Titans onto the Mesh.trade platform? Why have Mesh and AnBro partnered?

The reason I asked this question is a couple of shows ago and again, for listeners that may have missed it, we covered a show on gold – so something I know about Mesh is that you’re covering multi-asset classes and that’s something that I really like about your platform. What’s the appeal and what role does the Titans portfolio fulfil within Mesh’s overall offering?

 

Connie Bloem: That is the baseline of the relationship that we have with AnBro, other than them being fantastic human beings and incredible at what they do, is it’s in the two concepts that you just mentioned – the core portfolio and the model portfolio.

So what do these two terms mean? Because I think many a time in the market, model portfolio or balanced portfolio actually gets splashed around without people truly understanding what it means. What a model portfolio is – I don’t use the term balanced portfolio because what is balanced now, truly? – I use the term model portfolio – is it actually means that you have a recipe for investing and a fund has a recipe for investing.

You as an individual managing your own investments should also have a recipe for investing. Because the one thing that we all know about investing is if you do it consistently, you’re going to get to some magical unicorn land called compound interest. And the second thing that you are going to get to is something called a diversified portfolio. Now, all these things are terminology if you don’t understand that a model portfolio is fundamentally a recipe that you follow to bake this investment cake.

When you look at what is this model portfolio for you specifically, now this becomes interesting because then you can take a look at your life, your risk appetite, and you can invest according to that.

Why do a lot of the financial advisors and the professional investors in the market actually say to you that when you’re young, in your 20s, you should take high risk, you should be overweighted in equities, but when you get to your 30s and 40s, you want to diversify and have a bit more of a consistent kind of income, then when you get to your 60s and your 70s, you want to be going after cash? Okay, the concept of that is there’s a model portfolio that you can follow according to your risk appetite and where you are in your life and the goals that you follow.

And a little secret that not a lot of people tell you is that in every model portfolio you actually have the same elements that go into each of it. It’s literally like baking a cake. If you want to make brownies, you’re just going to throw chocolate in there, but if you want to make a vanilla sponge cake, you’re going to leave the chocolate out.

But fundamentally, all cakes have flour, eggs, sugar and what else in it to make it delicious. And when we say this core portfolio is, we’re actually talking about that big part of your portfolio that should be equities. And generally the advice is to have it diversified. So when we look at the spread of the AnBro assets, we have Titans, we have Unicorns, we have BRNDZ, and the little less popular one called ANCOMP, which I actually love, it’s a compounding one that provides a lot of good quality income.

Together with the rest of the assets that we have on platform – you mentioned our gold, we have some cryptos, soon we are going to bring forth a stay-rich fund as well, we’ll talk about that at later stages – we can actually take care of this full model portfolio that you’re looking for. And with our objective in the market to make it easy to access, simple to use and transparent for everyone, this is why we and AnBro work so well together because they also have this objective. That’s also why they talk about their funds so often.

If you come to our platform, you can then actually build your full investment portfolio with these things. And something that Craig said that actually stayed with me is this is obviously an actively balanced portfolio, but I don’t know about you – I’m a lazy investor, so I’m the passive investor. There’s no activity that happens on my side. When it comes to this portfolio, if there’s one thing that you decide to invest in and there’s only one asset that you can decide to have in your portfolio, this is kind of it.

 

The Finance Ghost: Yeah, look Moe’s not the most active guy, but when he is, it is in his portfolio. This is a reality of how he conduct his life.

 

Connie Bloem: Is that where the tennis elbow comes from?

 

The Finance Ghost: Yeah, well, allegedly. It is quite interesting to have a look at the Mesh website and just see it all coming together, right? We’ve done a show before on gold which is obviously something that a lot of people include in a portfolio, nice low volatility, inflation protection over time. You’ve got the AnBro stuff, which is obviously equity portfolios with a variety of strategies there, which is interesting. I’ll get back to that. Now you’ve got Die Mos, which is a bond linked to an Afrikaans school effectively, or a chain of schools, and they came and raised some money. We talked about that last time actually, which I found particularly interesting – it’s a great way for people to actually get access to capital, to come and speak to Mesh and do it that way.

But I think Craig, what’s interesting is if you look at the AnBro umbrella now, the core portfolio and then you’ve got the Unicorn, which is obviously a growth tilt, the Dynamic Compounding which is a dividend tilt, and the BRNDZ business, which I think is a bit of an FMCG tilt, a little bit, around some of the just biggest and most impressive brands in the world. The thing that these all have in common, is it’s very much offshore equity. And I guess the question I wanted to ask you is: why do you think it’s important to also just stick to your knitting with this? You’ve never really been tempted to bring us the AnBro JSE portfolio or the Chicken Little, the Moe-Bearish portfolio or anything like that. It’s very much optimistic offshore long term growth stuff.

Even when it’s not, and it’s focused on dividends. It also kind of is, it’s still these kind of international growth companies.

 

Craig Antonie: Yeah, well, I think Ghost, the important point to make is that we’re not – it’s not that we’re negative on SA, that’s not why we just look offshore. I think what we found is a few things. First of all, the South African market is obviously very well represented. There are excellent fund managers in South Africa that offer investors a huge variety of opportunities and funds there. What we tried to do when we started AnBro, Justine and I, was to do something different to bring something to the market that South African investors don’t have or can’t easily get access to.

Now, the South African stock market if you like is a wonderful place. Some of the best companies in the world really have emerged from SA and there are some wonderful stories of success on that market. But at the end of the day, it is a lot smaller than what you’re able to find elsewhere in the world, not just in the States, but naturally everywhere else, whether we look across Europe and emerging markets generally.

So what we thought was let’s try and do something different. And each AnBro portfolio that we’ve brought to the market is in our opinion, distinct. We don’t think it’s the type of portfolio you could easily find or replicate elsewhere. And that’s the niche we’ve tried to play in.

If you come and you invest in something like the Unicorn portfolio or the Titans or the BRNDZ or even the ANCOMP, we’re quite comfortable that you’re not going to be getting a portfolio that’s similar to these portfolios anywhere else.

Where in the SA market, if you wanted the best stocks in this African market, you’re guaranteed that everyone’s going to be owning at least two or three of the same sorts of companies, right? When we brought the Unicorn portfolio to the JSE and to the unit trust market, when it first came, we had to go and put all our stocks down on the BCI platform and ask them to make sure they were available for trading. There were probably at the time – I don’t want to lie to you, Ghost – but about 60 odd percent of the companies that we were investing in had not been bought yet by a fund manager in South Africa. They weren’t on the BCI platform. We literally had to go through a step-by-step process. We were saying, please add this company, please add that company so that we could slowly start investing in them.

That in itself I think vindicated the view that the ideas we’re finding, the things we’re investing in, they’re out there for the world to see, but not necessarily the sorts of companies that South African investors are getting exposure to. And that’s the niche we wanted to play in.

 

Mohammed Nalla: Craig, I like that. It’s a very well-defined niche, I think. AnBro, certainly my perception of it has been that you really do create these very innovative ideas around the portfolios that you bring to market. Kudos to you and the team at AnBro on that.

I want to maybe close with a double header. I’m going to throw a question to Craig and I’m going to throw a question to Connie as well.

Craig, if we just rewind to some of the stuff you indicated in terms of how the portfolio behaved historically, you did very well when the market when the S&P 500 had traded down very sharply. Similarly, you did well when the S&P 500 did very well. So I think if I were to say this is a lower beta exposure, it’s probably unfair because it’s almost as although you have lower downside volatility, you still preserve the upside volatility that you want. That’s just an observation. Again, time will tell whether that actually plays out. And again, your methodology will need to stand the test of time on that.

Where I want to go with this, Craig, is that there’s a lot of concern around the market at a headline level right now, lots of uncertainty in the market and a lot of people are saying, does the S&P break higher from where we are now and go and make new all-time highs, or does it actually reverse around resistance that we’re seeing right now and head lower? And so in that construct, a lot of investors might just want to sit on their hands and say, well, we’ll wait for this to resolve. And a nice way to kind of get around that would be cost averaging. Sometimes people just allocate capital over a period of time. They don’t just throw all the capital in one go.

So my question to you, Craig, is how does that fit with the ethos behind the Titans portfolio?

And then the second part of the question that I’m going to throw to Connie is that from a Mesh perspective, does your platform actually facilitate regular monthly investments? And then lastly, Connie, for you as well would be what does the fee structure look like? What are investors paying to get exposure to Titans? Is the fee in the portfolio, is the fee at Mesh? Can you break that down for us? Let’s maybe start off with Craig.

 

Craig Antonie: 100%. Well, the important thing I’d say about markets generally speaking is that they go up more than they go down, right? So we do know that when they go down, it tends to happen quite quickly and quite violently, but they go up for a lot longer than they go down.

And to answer your question, Moe, the only right time to start investing is literally today. Make sure that if you’re interested in investing, you do it today. And then you make sure that you give yourself the ability to add to those investments over time.

Now, what I do personally is I just invest my money monthly on a regular cadence, irrespective of where the markets are. It doesn’t matter. At a set day every month – for me personally, I’ve just chosen, it’s random, it’s the 8th of the month. On the 8th of the month, my debit orders go off and they go into the AnBro portfolios. And irrespective of whether the market’s up or down or going sideways or whether people think it’s expensive or cheap or whatever the case may be. Now, I’ll give you just some context on that, is that my unit trust exposure, for example, in the Titans portfolio this year is up. I’ve invested through the volatility in the markets that we’ve had so far year to date.

My portfolio is up year to date in ZAR. If you look at something like the S&P 500 ETF on the JSE listed on the JSE, the one CSP500, which we use as our benchmark, that’s down 6% this year. So just through basically buying on a regular cadence as the market was getting absolutely smashed earlier in the year and I bought cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, then it recovered and I bought a little bit more expensively and a little bit more expensively, but lo and behold, here we are today – market in dollar terms is down pretty much a half a percent, or perhaps it’s flat now year to date in dollars, my portfolio is up 5% in dollars. I’m flat rand, slightly higher in rand, but in rand the S&P 500 is down 5%.

So it’s just really an illustration of just being sort of consistent and regular and not worrying too much about timing the market. Obviously, sometimes we like to think that we can time the market better than other people, but the truth is, really, we can’t. I was very ironically – I mean, the day my last tranche went off in April was literally, I think, a couple of days either side of when Trump decided to cancel the tariffs. The S&P 500 rose 12% that day. Pure luck. There was no planning, nothing there. But you know what? That’s how it works sometimes.

 

The Finance Ghost: You moved the market. Craig, you moved the market when you went on the bid. It’s nice to be you.

 

Mohammed Nalla: I’m gonna use that, right? We now know on the 8th of every month, that’s when you’ve got to invest, because Craig’s millions are coming in and it’s gonna adjust the prices.

 

The Finance Ghost: Exactly right. Serious flows here.

 

Connie Bloem: Craig with his millions moving the market.

 

Craig Antonie: Yeah. No, but I mean, the reality is, even if one charts the S&P 500 and you look at every single top of the market before markets were involved in a serious correction, whether it be the emerging markets crisis in 98, the great financial crisis in 200/9, COVID – and all the other dips in between, if you literally bought the day before the markets crashed and you kept investing every month after that, you’d still have made an absolute fortune. So, you know, that’s the way we like to look at it.

 

Mohammed Nalla: And Connie, if we can come to you on that question, can we facilitate regular monthly or whatever the cadence is – can the platform facilitate that? And then lastly, what does the fee structure look like?

 

Connie Bloem: I’m gonna answer your very serious questions in a moment because as you were asking Craig some of those beta questions, I needed to go back in my mind, thinking about where is my financial engineering degree now? To be able to contribute here! But Craig, I can’t imagine why you missed saying it’s better to have a squirrel in the hand than two in the bush here, when investing…

 

The Finance Ghost: We don’t want Craig’s squirrels back. I’m still recovering from Craig’s squirrels, please. I have PTSD – post traumatic squirrel disorder. I’m done with it. Done with the squirrels.

 

Connie Bloem: But to your question, Moe, all the AnBro assets can be found on our platform. You can find that at App.Mesh.Trade.

And yes, you can invest monthly, you can invest daily. The best that I generally tell to people is put up those debit orders, let that “8th of the month” payment go down into your account, so you can actually invest consistently every month. It’s as easy as that. And to the fee structures, yes, of course, Craig and Justine from AnBro also need to make some money, so they do have their management fee that runs on their portfolios that are quite standard and very competitive in the market.

Mesh doesn’t add another fee on top of it on the actual portfolio or on the spread of the price. We try to replicate the market very, very closely, very, very tightly there. But what Mesh does add is there is a 0.2% trading fee on top of your purchase or your sale of these assets, and that’s the only fees that the platform adds. We don’t have custody fees and insurance fees and all those kind of things that go towards our investors because we actually want our investors to keep on consistently investing.

And I do understand how hard it is to make back those fees as well, at the end of the day. So that is our agreement and it’s as simple as that. So very easy to set up your debit orders, go to the platform and buy your Titans portfolio on the marketplace.

 

Mohammed Nalla: And Craig, just to wrap that one up in terms of the fees that sit within the Titans portfolio, as Connie says, AnBro do need to charge their fees. There’s a lot of work that goes into this. You’re rebalancing the portfolio. There’s your IP that goes into how you screen for the stocks. What is the fee that is in the Titans portfolio at the moment?

 

Craig Antonie: So the AnBro fee is 1.35% per annum. There’s no VAT that’s charged to that. And then UBS have created the structure for us to trade it as an AMC and their fee is 0.25%.

 

The Finance Ghost: Perfect. This is why Moe and I do magic markets, because I was going to ask the same question. I think we got to end it there. Craig, Connie, it’s been a blast, as always. Very interesting to see the product development coming through from the AnBro side, the partnership with Mesh. Seeing this stuff being brought to market, it’s just really nice to watch. So, congrats!

And to our listeners. go check it out. If you haven’t had a look at Mesh yet, go and have a look. It is really, really interesting. You’re familiar with AnBro by now, so these voices are not a surprise to you and nor is their strategy that they follow and the products that they bring to you. I will obviously include the websites in the show notes.

Connie, great to have you back, Craig, certainly great to have you back. It’s been a little while and we look forward to another one with you. And until next week, Moe, I suggest we say goodbye.

 

Mohammed Nalla: Yeah, thanks. It’s been a blast. We hope you’ve enjoyed the show. Find us on social media. It’s @MagicMarketsPod, @FinanceGhost and @MohammedNalla, all on X. Or go and find us on LinkedIn, pop us a note on there, or reach out to the teams at both Mesh and Anbro. They are very receptive to have your questions and to address those.

Until next week, same time, same place, thanks and Cheers.

 

This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not financial or investment advice. Please speak to your personal financial advisor.